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This is a max out leadership broadcast.
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Like most leaders,
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you are probably currently in transition.
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Maybe you are new into your role
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or you are about to start a new job.
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Or maybe it's your manager or someone
in your team who are new in their role.
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We're about to start a new job.
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If this is you, go to Self-empowerment
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on Leadership Transition Secrets.
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I know the close attention
to the transition and into the new role
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and secure success for your new role.
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So the first thing is I like
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to use the notion that it's vulnerability.
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So it's really an ability
that we need to develop
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because it doesn't come naturally to many,
many people, especially many leaders,
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because we have the impression
that we have to be on the ball, know
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all the answers, and just be that person
that everybody can rely on and turn to.
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So when we can really admit what we know,
what we don't know,
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it's actually very liberating and
it makes us more confident as a leader.
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It sounds funny but admitting that
we don't know, admitting weaknesses
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is really putting everything on the table,
and that's when we're showing up
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as our authentic self.
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And my favorite question is.
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My guest today is the leader
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who always gets me to ponder
every time I speak to her.
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And you will understand what I mean
once through listening to this episode.
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Jackie Robers is a partner
at Minds Matter,
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a consulting and training firm
based in Montreal, Canada.
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That supports employees, leaders
and organizational well-being.
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As a leadership coach, Jackie uses
the whole purpose of mindfulness
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and value based approach
to help people and organizations thrive.
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Jackie also teaches authentic leadership
at the McGill Executive Institute
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In my conversation with her today,
we discussed the importance for leaders
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to align with their authentic self,
their values and their purpose.
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Without further
ado, let's welcome Jackie Robbins
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Welcome to
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my show Leadership Podcast
that I'm so grateful to you,
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Jackie, for joining us on our podcast.
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Welcome. Thank you. Pleasure to be here.
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Excellent.
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And Jackie,
this this podcast about leadership
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is for leaders and entrepreneurs
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to give them some practical tools and tips
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about leadership so that they can improve
on their leadership skills.
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And I do this because I truly believe that
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leadership is at the heart of everything
and every every organization.
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Success really relies on on leadership.
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And before we get into more detail about
would you mind introducing yourself
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to our audience and how your interest
on leadership came about?
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Yes, certainly.
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So my name is Jackie Auberge.
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I'm a leadership coach.
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I'm also a life purpose coach.
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And I do mindfulness based facilitation.
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So all sorts of workshops
like emotional intelligence,
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psychological safety,
but based on my mindfulness practices
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and I'm also a yoga
and meditation teacher,
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although I don't do that as much now
because I'm busy with the coaching
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and the facilitation.
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So how I got into leadership
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coaching was a bit of a
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when I talk about purpose,
I say we can either get called towards
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something that we are meant to do
or we can sort of
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get passionate
about moving towards something.
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So in this case,
it was actually I was called towards it.
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I was I went to McGill Executive Institute
and that's basically learning
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continual continuous
learning for executives.
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And I presented some of my workshops
like Mindfulness
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Mat Work and Emotional Intelligence,
and they ended up coming back to me
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and saying, Well,
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we would actually like you
to teach our authentic leadership course.
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So that was sort of my first foray
into teaching
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around this notion
of authentic leadership.
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And then they also hired me to do some
facilitation for one of their big clients,
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and I ended up coaching
many of their leaders.
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It was a worldwide
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cohort that was
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getting trained, and I ended up coaching
some of those leaders.
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And in another
completely different situation,
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I was asked to give workshops
for government leaders.
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So I just kept getting pulled
in this direction of working with leaders.
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And I'm like, you,
I'm passionate about leaders.
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Have such a great role to play,
and they're so pivotal, pivotal
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in terms of inspiring
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you know,
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bringing collaboration,
changing corporate cultures.
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There's just so many roles
that leaders play.
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There's so important so
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yeah. Yeah, no, I absolutely agree.
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So what will be your definition
of leadership.
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You know, I was thinking about this,
and it's it's almost the opposite
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of what we would think.
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For me, it's not about
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creating a following
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and and being this this sort of
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big image of what we
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think of a leader to me
is really empowering others. Yes.
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It's bringing out the best in people,
leveraging their strength
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and also inspiring,
inspiring them to tap into their purpose,
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tap into the drive
to contribute in a meaningful way.
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And and then, yes, there's there's
a portion of it that's setting a vision.
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And you want to bring everyone along
in a collaborative way
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to make that vision happen.
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And to me, leadership
is not about having all the answers.
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It's it's about really bringing
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good questions, bringing good people on,
and then giving them the tools
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and the training and the support
and the encouragement
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that they need to to really thrive.
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No, absolutely.
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I agree very much.
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And to me,
you know, it's all about the people.
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And in all the definitions that you give
and the example you used, you
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when it's all around
people, you're talking about
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empowering all those inspiring others.
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And these days, you are very much talking
about compassionate leadership.
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Can you tell us a bit more about that
and why specifically compassionate?
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Yes. So there's some research
that came out this year.
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It's done over a long period of time with
it was part of the potential
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project and it was done
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with over
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350 executives, I think it was 15,000
leaders in over 100 countries.
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So really internationally based research.
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And what they found out
was that new expectations for employees
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are to feel connected, to feel valued
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and to feel cared for and cared about.
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So to me if we go in
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to look at the leadership role
with these expectations in mind,
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it's a necessary component
to be compassionate.
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So compassion creates the connection.
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It creates the capacity
to to really tune in
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and want to support and encourage
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are our team teammates or our employees.
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So compassion to me really is necessary
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for taking and making tough decisions,
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but doing it in a kind, caring
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and really honest and open way.
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That's that's part of this compassion
is is being able to make hard decisions
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but in a human way
and really connect with the people
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and what they're going through as these
decisions and might be affecting different
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different aspects of their life, too,
to really connect with the people.
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Absolutely.
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And I think
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there must be something to do
with what we've lived
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through over the last two years. As well.
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You know, people are discovering
in a different or new sense of purpose
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and they
they want their work to be more meaningful
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how much do you think
the pandemic has impacted
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that field of leadership
in changing the role of leaders?
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I think it's it's done
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actually really
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positive things
in terms of the role of a leader.
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One, it is it is gave leaders
the opportunity to be vulnerable.
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So I did some interviews
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about halfway into the pandemic,
and I said, what's going on?
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How do you how do you feel as a leader?
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And and they were really saying
they were uncomfortable
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not being able to tell their people,
this is our clear vision.
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This is where we're going.
And I've got you guys.
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They had to get up there and say,
look, there's so much uncertainty
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this is where we're heading.
We need your support.
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We need your input.
And it really was a humbling experience.
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So I think that's that was beautiful.
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Secondly, I believe that it helped
leaders care more about the person.
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And when I do my coaching,
I call it whole person coaching,
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because when you show up at work,
you're not just showing up as
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your role at work, you're showing up
as a whole human being, as a parent,
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as a sister or brother, as a caregiver,
whatever you're dealing with.
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And what the pandemic did is it
gave leaders a view,
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literally a view into the world
that their employees are living in.
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So, you know, you might have seen people
dealing with kids or whatever
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might be happening in their personal life,
and it really allowed leaders
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to connect
with them on on a more personal basis.
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And I think it deepened connections
and really gave leaders
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an opportunity to see their employees
as as they are know, whole people.
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And I think finally, like you
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said, in terms of the employees,
I think it did
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give people inspiration to kind of reflect
on what's really important.
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And life is fragile
and we don't know what the future holds
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and am I doing meaningful work
and my where
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I want to be
and in leveraging my strengths
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and leveraging
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what I'm passionate about and if we're not
bringing passion to our work,
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then there's the amount of time
that we spend working.
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There's definitely an opportunity there
to to find more alignment with our values
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and with our what
we're meant to do our purpose in life.
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Absolutely.
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And I was I was at was training last week
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or earlier
this week about change in leadership.
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And one of the things the facility did
very well was sharing
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some of their personal stories
and creating that connection
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and allow them to be vulnerable.
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And at the end, all the participant
were thanking him for for doing that.
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And he said, you know, I'm doing this
so that you are able to do the same
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with your team members
and show that vulnerability.
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But it's difficult sometimes as leader
to show that side of us
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and some people might feel like,
oh, no, no, this is work.
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No, we're not allowed to
to show that much emotions.
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How would you you take your clients
and people you coached through
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being
or allowing themselves to be vulnerable.
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What do you
what would you recommend people
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do as practical steps
to create that connection?
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Mm. Good question.
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So the first thing is I like to use
the notion that it's vulnerable ability.
00:13:00:16 - 00:13:04:13
So it's really an ability
that we need to develop because it doesn't
00:13:04:15 - 00:13:08:00
come naturally to many, many people,
especially many leaders,
00:13:08:00 - 00:13:12:24
because we have the impression
that we have to be on the ball, know
00:13:12:24 - 00:13:16:13
all the answers,
and just be that person that everybody
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can rely on and turn to and
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really, like you said,
when we are vulnerable,
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it creates deeper level connections
and it creates more psychological safety.
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It gives people, other people permission
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to really share and not feel like there's
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going to be negative consequences
from from whatever they're sharing.
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And this doesn't mean that you need to
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share it all, but you want to
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share
at appropriate times in appropriate ways
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that creates the connection
and like you say, opens up for you.
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You're basically a role model
to how you want others
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to be able to to open up
00:14:03:21 - 00:14:05:18
and I think what I do
00:14:05:18 - 00:14:08:12
with my clients that health is helpful is
00:14:09:16 - 00:14:13:17
one of the coaching trainings I got
was with a coach called Brendan Bouchard
00:14:14:01 - 00:14:17:02
and he has a high performance coach
00:14:17:12 - 00:14:20:09
and he talks about this
new definition of confidence
00:14:20:12 - 00:14:24:24
and it really is about feeling
00:14:24:24 - 00:14:27:21
OK to say, I don't have the answer.
00:14:28:06 - 00:14:33:01
And instead of trying to hide
your weaknesses and, and not being seen
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and there's this whole imposter syndrome
like I am, I'm here.
00:14:36:15 - 00:14:37:19
But if anybody finds out
00:14:37:19 - 00:14:40:12
that I'm not as good as they think
I am, then I'm in trouble.
00:14:40:20 - 00:14:43:09
That is just actually exhausting.
00:14:43:20 - 00:14:49:17
So when we can really admit what we know,
what we don't know,
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it's actually very liberating
and it makes us more comfy as a leader.
00:14:54:12 - 00:14:58:22
It sounds funny, but admitting that
we don't know admitting weaknesses
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is really putting everything on the table
and that's when we're
00:15:02:01 - 00:15:05:09
showing up is our authentic self
when we talk about authentic leadership,
00:15:05:09 - 00:15:09:07
it's like, Here I am
and this is empowering.
00:15:09:12 - 00:15:12:07
So when we are most authentic
00:15:12:07 - 00:15:14:21
self,
this is when we're our most powerful self,
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even though it feels vulnerable
to start with.
00:15:18:21 - 00:15:21:22
Once you start experiencing
00:15:21:22 - 00:15:25:16
like, OK, it's
ok to show up just as I am, then it's,
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it's self-reinforcing.
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So it really is an important practice
for leaders absolutely.
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That's right.
00:15:34:18 - 00:15:38:22
And, you know, if I
if I if I wanted to go along this line
00:15:38:22 - 00:15:42:18
of showing your whole self
being authentic, allowing yourself to,
00:15:43:20 - 00:15:47:13
to say, I don't have the answer
and at the same time
00:15:47:21 - 00:15:50:16
sometimes, oh,
most of the time people will be turning
00:15:50:16 - 00:15:54:10
to the leader for comfort
or for for reassurance.
00:15:54:10 - 00:15:57:14
You know, how aware do you put the limit
00:15:57:14 - 00:16:00:07
between allowing yourself
00:16:00:24 - 00:16:04:11
to be transparent authentic and also,
you know,
00:16:04:11 - 00:16:08:02
showing some level of strength for,
you know,
00:16:09:02 - 00:16:11:20
supporting the team through
00:16:11:20 - 00:16:13:23
a level of encouragement?
00:16:13:23 - 00:16:14:07
Yeah.
00:16:14:07 - 00:16:18:08
I guess to me, the no showing up
00:16:18:08 - 00:16:21:20
with compassion and authenticity,
that is the strength
00:16:22:14 - 00:16:24:22
and when when you can really
00:16:25:17 - 00:16:30:10
tune into the emotions
and deepen your understanding
00:16:30:10 - 00:16:33:07
of the struggles of what you're employees
are going through.
00:16:33:15 - 00:16:37:09
That's again when you're playing,
you know, one of your most powerful roles.
00:16:37:18 - 00:16:40:17
So it's a paradigm shift
00:16:40:17 - 00:16:44:06
from needing to know all the answers
00:16:44:06 - 00:16:49:07
to wanting to support, encourage,
connect with, validate
00:16:49:08 - 00:16:53:02
the feelings of my employees
and also ask the good questions.
00:16:53:02 - 00:16:56:10
That's much more important to me
than knowing all the answers.
00:16:56:19 - 00:17:00:15
And that as a leader,
when you can turn to people
00:17:00:15 - 00:17:03:17
and involve them and that's also
what happened during the pandemic,
00:17:03:17 - 00:17:06:22
is that answers and ideas
00:17:06:22 - 00:17:10:16
started to come from all sorts of places
in the organization.
00:17:10:16 - 00:17:14:10
And I think it really opened up
leaders to say, OK, good,
00:17:14:10 - 00:17:18:12
I don't need to have everything
all planned out.
00:17:18:12 - 00:17:23:10
I can rely more on my people
and that's a really big part of
00:17:24:15 - 00:17:26:24
this, this vulnerability and opening up
00:17:26:24 - 00:17:30:02
and creating a collaborative environment
00:17:30:10 - 00:17:32:16
that the results are really powerful.
00:17:33:17 - 00:17:34:23
Absolutely.
00:17:34:23 - 00:17:41:04
And I think also we go through years
where the psychological pressure
00:17:41:04 - 00:17:45:18
for employees but also for leaders
is getting really high.
00:17:46:07 - 00:17:48:20
How do you recommend leaders
00:17:48:20 - 00:17:51:06
maintaining their wellbeing and,
00:17:51:06 - 00:17:55:00
you know,
protecting their psychological strength
00:17:55:00 - 00:17:57:21
and presence
to allow them to be better leaders?
00:17:58:24 - 00:18:01:23
Well, it all starts with self-care,
I believe.
00:18:02:05 - 00:18:06:07
If we are not as a leader,
if we're not start
00:18:06:07 - 00:18:08:12
with a very, very basic
if we're not sleeping well,
00:18:09:10 - 00:18:12:18
that's like bottom line,
that there's improvement there.
00:18:13:01 - 00:18:16:17
And when we don't sleep well,
what happens is we end up
00:18:17:16 - 00:18:22:05
it's it's got this spillover effect on
we don't feel like exercising as much.
00:18:22:05 - 00:18:25:11
We turn to coffee and junk food
or whatever it is,
00:18:25:20 - 00:18:28:01
and we're just not on our game.
00:18:28:05 - 00:18:34:11
Like when we are tired we can be more
judgmental, impatient, all those things.
00:18:34:11 - 00:18:38:11
So and again, going back to Brendan
Buchholz, when he coaches people,
00:18:38:19 - 00:18:42:00
if one of the first questions is
are you getting 8 hours of sleep?
00:18:42:14 - 00:18:45:24
And most of the time the leaders go, yeah,
yeah, I don't want to talk about that.
00:18:46:02 - 00:18:47:21
You know, I'm here
to be coached on my leadership.
00:18:47:21 - 00:18:51:01
And he's like,
no, no, no, this is fundamental.
00:18:51:01 - 00:18:55:02
So sleep
or are you taking care of yourself
00:18:55:02 - 00:18:56:21
in terms of exercise, eating well?
00:18:56:21 - 00:19:00:16
So the three basics,
but they are, as Brendan
00:19:00:16 - 00:19:03:15
would say, they're common sense,
but they're not always common practice.
00:19:04:14 - 00:19:09:13
And leaders
tend to put the needs of others
00:19:09:13 - 00:19:12:24
and the organization
before themselves in many cases.
00:19:13:08 - 00:19:18:06
But I believe that that is a mistake
because we as leaders,
00:19:18:12 - 00:19:22:07
everybody counts on them
to be showing up at their best.
00:19:22:12 - 00:19:25:18
And that takes discipline
and it takes courage
00:19:26:17 - 00:19:30:05
and takes maybe setting
limits and boundaries for me, when I
00:19:30:06 - 00:19:35:01
when I coach people, what are the best
solutions I find is get a morning routine,
00:19:35:18 - 00:19:40:19
get up a little bit earlier, do your walk,
do your meditation, have a healthy
00:19:40:19 - 00:19:44:06
breakfast, whatever is, but don't
your don't start your day in a rushed way.
00:19:44:15 - 00:19:48:13
And the more delay
you put in terms of doing exercise
00:19:48:13 - 00:19:51:23
and things for yourself, the more chances
that something else is going to come up
00:19:51:23 - 00:19:54:19
and that you're not going to be able
to give yourself that self-care
00:19:55:02 - 00:19:59:01
that is essential, foundational
for for good leadership.
00:20:00:05 - 00:20:02:23
Not completely can relate to that.
00:20:02:23 - 00:20:06:17
I remember when I started
to get into the space
00:20:06:17 - 00:20:10:17
of reading more and
and studying more leadership.
00:20:10:22 - 00:20:14:19
One of the things that got me started
was a book by Hal Harold called
00:20:15:03 - 00:20:19:02
Miracle Morning, where he talks about,
you know, the morning routines.
00:20:19:02 - 00:20:22:08
And I started to practice
the Miracle Morning
00:20:22:08 - 00:20:25:11
and that one of the steps was reading.
00:20:26:00 - 00:20:28:20
And I started to read books good.
00:20:29:18 - 00:20:31:00
One thing led to another.
00:20:31:00 - 00:20:34:05
I then got introduced to Brendan the side,
but introduced to
00:20:34:11 - 00:20:38:09
Tony Robbins
to all the leadership books with
00:20:39:12 - 00:20:40:08
John Max.
00:20:40:08 - 00:20:43:03
And then, you know, that morning
routine is
00:20:43:03 - 00:20:46:10
what gave me the space
to read more, to exercise more,
00:20:46:21 - 00:20:50:04
get more conscious about,
you know, what I need to do with my body.
00:20:50:04 - 00:20:53:06
And then obviously looking after my,
my mind.
00:20:53:06 - 00:20:55:14
Then I saw I absolutely agree.
You're right.
00:20:55:24 - 00:20:57:20
Looking at then.
00:20:57:20 - 00:21:03:06
Yeah, I call my workshop on your mornings,
so really that's, that's the time
00:21:03:10 - 00:21:08:04
that usually as long as we get up early
nobody else can take that time.
00:21:08:15 - 00:21:11:04
So it's really sacred time. Yes.
00:21:11:16 - 00:21:14:08
And I guess one of one of the space
mid-morning
00:21:14:08 - 00:21:18:21
is also allowing us
to reflect on what we want to do.
00:21:18:22 - 00:21:21:00
What's what's our purpose in life?
00:21:21:06 - 00:21:25:05
What's, what's your definition of purpose
and how important is
00:21:25:24 - 00:21:27:07
purpose for leadership?
00:21:28:17 - 00:21:29:15
My definition
00:21:29:15 - 00:21:34:03
of purpose of life
purpose is really discovering the
00:21:34:06 - 00:21:38:14
the difference that you're meant
to make in the world based on your unique
00:21:39:01 - 00:21:42:06
talents, skills and life experiences.
00:21:43:01 - 00:21:46:05
And when people tap into that,
00:21:46:09 - 00:21:52:12
they really tap into a greater love
and a level of passion, of drive
00:21:52:12 - 00:21:53:23
and of energy.
00:21:53:23 - 00:21:57:06
So I believe if if there's not a good
00:21:57:06 - 00:22:02:24
at least a partial alignment
between our purpose and the purpose or the
00:22:03:23 - 00:22:07:23
fundamentals of the business,
what the business is about,
00:22:07:23 - 00:22:11:03
if there's not some sort of alignment,
then we're
00:22:11:22 - 00:22:16:04
missing out on an opportunity
for greater fulfillment,
00:22:16:15 - 00:22:20:01
feeling like our life has more meaning,
that we're contributing more.
00:22:20:01 - 00:22:23:13
And that's a fundamental
human need to contribute.
00:22:23:13 - 00:22:25:12
And that's how we find fulfillment.
00:22:25:12 - 00:22:30:01
It's not the big bonus and the checks
and the all the, the benefits.
00:22:30:01 - 00:22:33:10
It's really those things can make us
00:22:33:10 - 00:22:36:23
temporarily feel happiness and joy.
00:22:36:23 - 00:22:40:01
But the real fulfillment,
the lasting fulfillment comes
00:22:40:01 - 00:22:43:22
from that alignment
with doing what you feel
00:22:44:07 - 00:22:48:21
is a meaningful contribution
and really helping the greater good.
00:22:49:05 - 00:22:53:13
That's, that's a fundamental human
need to contribute to the greater good.
00:22:53:19 - 00:22:58:12
So it's to me, it's, it's really important
to to find that alignment.
00:22:58:12 - 00:23:00:03
And more and more companies
00:23:00:03 - 00:23:03:06
are starting to define their purpose,
which is is really great.
00:23:03:06 - 00:23:08:15
And then it's more clear when you're
you're looking to lead a company.
00:23:08:16 - 00:23:09:15
OK, is that a
00:23:09:15 - 00:23:13:02
is that a company that I'm aligned
with in terms of my purpose
00:23:13:02 - 00:23:13:22
and where they're going?
00:23:13:22 - 00:23:16:12
So it makes it easier now? Absolutely.
00:23:16:13 - 00:23:17:17
No, I agree.
00:23:17:17 - 00:23:18:22
But then, you know,
00:23:18:22 - 00:23:23:08
if I'm a student of yours and, you know,
I come to a workshop and you say my
00:23:23:10 - 00:23:26:14
you need to find your personality,
OK, exactly.
00:23:26:14 - 00:23:27:22
How do I do that?
00:23:27:22 - 00:23:31:05
How do I go about what you know,
what are the practical steps
00:23:31:05 - 00:23:36:23
that I can take to to help me,
you know, identify or find that purpose?
00:23:38:00 - 00:23:38:23
Well, definitely,
00:23:38:23 - 00:23:42:00
it's tuning into your passions.
00:23:42:10 - 00:23:46:02
So anything that really lights you up
00:23:47:10 - 00:23:49:14
and sometimes that's
00:23:49:14 - 00:23:53:04
what lights your heart up and sometimes
that's what breaks your heart.
00:23:53:20 - 00:23:58:01
So tuning into if there's something
that you and injustice in the world
00:23:58:02 - 00:24:01:17
and you think, I really want to change
that and you're just like, so
00:24:02:22 - 00:24:05:01
passionate about making that change,
00:24:05:01 - 00:24:07:02
it's likely related to your purpose.
00:24:08:12 - 00:24:10:02
Another sign is like
00:24:10:02 - 00:24:13:14
when I started meditating,
I got so excited about the benefits.
00:24:13:14 - 00:24:15:03
I wanted to share it with the world.
00:24:15:03 - 00:24:17:04
So when you have
that kind of feeling like,
00:24:17:04 - 00:24:19:18
Oh my gosh, I've discovered this
and I want to share it,
00:24:20:03 - 00:24:23:01
it's it's a sign that you're,
you're aligned with your passion.
00:24:23:07 - 00:24:26:08
And really, any time you're
doing something or you feel
00:24:27:12 - 00:24:30:12
you lose track
of time, you feel like you're in the zone,
00:24:30:12 - 00:24:31:21
all those kind of things.
00:24:31:21 - 00:24:35:01
It's, it's likely that you're
doing an aspect of your purpose.
00:24:35:16 - 00:24:38:13
And the good news is
we are all doing our purpose
00:24:38:13 - 00:24:41:14
naturally because it is something
that comes naturally to us.
00:24:42:00 - 00:24:44:00
But what happens
when you actually sit down
00:24:44:00 - 00:24:46:18
and do a bunch of exercises
that I help people
00:24:47:11 - 00:24:49:17
actually get clarity around purpose?
00:24:50:12 - 00:24:54:09
Once you put your finger on it,
then you can actually see, OK,
00:24:54:09 - 00:24:55:12
now I'm doing my purpose
00:24:55:12 - 00:25:00:11
and you can see the impact,
the kind of the before and after.
00:25:00:11 - 00:25:04:08
This is the way the situation of
the person was before I did my purpose.
00:25:04:08 - 00:25:05:13
This is how it was after.
00:25:05:13 - 00:25:07:10
And it just heightens our level of
00:25:09:18 - 00:25:12:12
of meaning and
00:25:12:12 - 00:25:14:22
realizing that the impact that we
00:25:15:01 - 00:25:17:12
that we have in in our in our work.
00:25:17:22 - 00:25:21:23
So it really makes it more fulfilling
when we can pinpoint it and
00:25:22:12 - 00:25:26:20
and then we can, you know,
really lean into it as well, develop it.
00:25:27:16 - 00:25:34:01
I certainly and then through your work
and your coaching, what would you say
00:25:34:02 - 00:25:38:03
is the biggest challenge that you see
the leaders are facing
00:25:38:03 - 00:25:39:03
today?
00:25:42:06 - 00:25:44:01
I would say that's
00:25:44:01 - 00:25:47:12
one of the biggest challenge is not only
00:25:47:12 - 00:25:50:04
a stressed out workforce, but
00:25:51:13 - 00:25:54:21
just kind of overwhelmed, fatigued,
00:25:55:05 - 00:25:58:07
discouraged,
you know, with the whole COVID, with
00:25:59:11 - 00:26:01:00
the economy, all of these things.
00:26:01:00 - 00:26:03:18
So I think one of the things is just
00:26:05:00 - 00:26:08:15
supporting
the mental health of employees and
00:26:09:16 - 00:26:14:10
being able to either put programs in place
or create.
00:26:15:01 - 00:26:19:20
I talk a lot about psychological safety
now is creating cultures
00:26:19:20 - 00:26:25:05
where, again, it's OK to be vulnerable,
it's OK to make mistakes, it's
00:26:25:05 - 00:26:29:07
OK to admit that we are feeling
overwhelmed or anxious.
00:26:29:14 - 00:26:33:12
And when I talk
about the compassionate part
00:26:35:06 - 00:26:37:08
basically empathy is is,
00:26:37:08 - 00:26:40:05
you know, when you're feeling
the emotions of the other person.
00:26:40:05 - 00:26:43:12
And that's important because they felt
and they feel understood or heard,
00:26:43:20 - 00:26:46:09
but compassionate leadership
brings it to the next step.
00:26:46:14 - 00:26:50:00
It's how can I help
now that you've shared this with me?
00:26:50:01 - 00:26:52:14
I feel I feel what you're going through.
I feel your pain.
00:26:52:21 - 00:26:55:08
How can we move forward?
How can I support you?
00:26:55:08 - 00:26:58:15
And that's really it's empowering and
00:26:59:15 - 00:27:03:07
inspiring to be able to
to do that for people.
00:27:03:07 - 00:27:06:10
And a lot of times we feel is leaders like
00:27:06:10 - 00:27:09:23
we have to know all the answers
in order to broach the subject.
00:27:09:23 - 00:27:12:16
So if somebody is having a difficult time
and feeling overwhelmed,
00:27:13:05 - 00:27:15:21
we just kind of, OK,
I don't know how to fix that
00:27:15:21 - 00:27:18:06
because they're on a big project
and they have to deliver.
00:27:18:20 - 00:27:23:05
But really, my my advice for for leaders
00:27:23:05 - 00:27:27:08
would be don't
shy away from really head on
00:27:28:23 - 00:27:29:19
discussing
00:27:29:19 - 00:27:32:21
connecting with individuals
and really hearing their concerns
00:27:32:21 - 00:27:37:02
and connect you with their emotions and
not worry about having all the answers.
00:27:37:02 - 00:27:41:16
That's again not the most important thing,
just allowing them to share
00:27:42:01 - 00:27:45:13
and having that deeper connection is
is really powerful.
00:27:45:18 - 00:27:48:11
And then it gives you a question,
how can I support
00:27:48:13 - 00:27:52:07
how can we co-create a plan moving forward
00:27:52:13 - 00:27:55:23
that will support you and
and and the organization?
00:27:55:23 - 00:27:59:01
Because bottom line, the leaders
also need to drive performance.
00:27:59:16 - 00:28:02:24
And really, compassion
is about doing it in a way
00:28:02:24 - 00:28:05:16
that's that's human and caring same time.
00:28:06:18 - 00:28:08:19
Not enough. So really, how can I help?
00:28:09:03 - 00:28:12:02
I guess that's
one of the greatest question that you
00:28:12:15 - 00:28:15:24
should keep in mind in good one
and ask that team.
00:28:16:11 - 00:28:18:04
Mm hmm. Absolutely.
00:28:19:05 - 00:28:21:03
And I know you you
00:28:21:03 - 00:28:27:00
do a lot of interviews
and both guys in training and coaching
00:28:27:09 - 00:28:30:09
and you get a lot of questions
from from from your audience.
00:28:30:18 - 00:28:33:08
What's the one question that you wish
people ask you about?
00:28:33:08 - 00:28:35:07
They don't ask.
00:28:36:12 - 00:28:40:13
Oh, you know, what just comes up
00:28:40:14 - 00:28:43:13
spontaneously for me is the
00:28:44:09 - 00:28:46:19
the power of beliefs
00:28:46:19 - 00:28:48:23
if somebody would ask me just like you,
you know,
00:28:50:21 - 00:28:52:09
how powerful are the beliefs
00:28:52:09 - 00:28:55:05
that we have about things about ourselves?
00:28:55:22 - 00:28:59:08
And this is something I use a lot in
my coaching
00:28:59:09 - 00:29:02:11
is when we have a belief about something,
00:29:02:20 - 00:29:05:21
basically our ego wants to be right.
00:29:05:21 - 00:29:10:21
So it will literally see and hear things
00:29:11:02 - 00:29:14:16
in the foreground that support our belief
and other things
00:29:15:06 - 00:29:18:00
don't support
our belief, get pushed to the background.
00:29:18:15 - 00:29:20:24
So we really want to
00:29:21:14 - 00:29:25:12
challenge ourselves
in terms of what beliefs am I
00:29:25:12 - 00:29:30:04
holding again, like I said about myself,
about the economy, about my my people
00:29:30:15 - 00:29:34:15
and my favorite question is,
are those beliefs serving you?
00:29:35:16 - 00:29:36:01
Are they
00:29:36:01 - 00:29:39:06
helping move you in a direction
that's positive towards
00:29:39:06 - 00:29:42:14
what's important to you, towards
your your objectives?
00:29:43:00 - 00:29:46:08
And if not,
how can you replace those beliefs?
00:29:46:08 - 00:29:48:16
How can you start forming new
00:29:50:21 - 00:29:55:24
new ways of thinking
and opening up to other possibilities?
00:29:55:24 - 00:29:59:23
Another thing that I ask when people share
their beliefs is is it true?
00:30:01:03 - 00:30:02:15
And often it's not true.
00:30:02:15 - 00:30:03:19
It's just a perception.
00:30:03:19 - 00:30:06:00
And if it is true, is it always true?
00:30:06:18 - 00:30:11:15
And it really helps them dig down
to to deeper levels of reflection.
00:30:11:15 - 00:30:14:11
And so I think that's
one of the most important things.
00:30:15:06 - 00:30:19:20
Self awareness is also really important,
and if we're not self aware,
00:30:19:20 - 00:30:24:12
then we don't even know that these beliefs
and patterns are playing
00:30:24:12 - 00:30:28:17
in the background in influencing
so much of our our perceptions. So
00:30:30:00 - 00:30:30:12
that would.
00:30:30:12 - 00:30:31:05
Yeah.
00:30:31:08 - 00:30:33:06
So is it true?
00:30:33:06 - 00:30:35:10
Is it always true?
00:30:35:10 - 00:30:37:12
How many roadblocks.
00:30:37:12 - 00:30:39:03
And is it serving you.
00:30:39:03 - 00:30:42:18
And it's serving you, it's
00:30:42:21 - 00:30:46:23
as we get toward
the end of our conversation yet today.
00:30:47:03 - 00:30:48:17
Jackie, again, thank you very much.
00:30:48:17 - 00:30:53:07
What are three books
that you recommend our audience?
00:30:53:14 - 00:30:57:01
It could be one, but you know, if you OK.
00:30:58:10 - 00:31:00:05
I'll give you three.
00:31:00:05 - 00:31:02:12
Like they kind of cover different things.
00:31:02:20 - 00:31:06:01
One would be conscious capitalism
00:31:06:13 - 00:31:08:17
and that's a book
00:31:08:17 - 00:31:11:22
about Whole Foods and John Mackey,
00:31:12:10 - 00:31:15:22
it's written with Red Sea Soda
and it's just
00:31:15:22 - 00:31:19:09
a wonderful example of a leader
00:31:20:22 - 00:31:24:06
that was really a visionary
before his time.
00:31:24:06 - 00:31:28:07
And this story is really funny
because he dropped out of school
00:31:28:14 - 00:31:31:13
and he ended up becoming an amazing
00:31:32:19 - 00:31:33:07
leader
00:31:33:07 - 00:31:36:18
beyond what business schools
can teach people to be.
00:31:36:18 - 00:31:40:19
And it was all through hard work
and reading and mentorship.
00:31:40:19 - 00:31:43:16
And so it's a really,
really inspirational leadership book.
00:31:44:10 - 00:31:46:17
Another that I love and it's more
00:31:46:17 - 00:31:49:08
related to purpose
is the Big Five for Life.
00:31:50:04 - 00:31:52:22
And it's it's a
00:31:53:01 - 00:31:55:06
really captivating story,
00:31:55:13 - 00:31:59:04
easy read, but really powerful in terms of
00:31:59:04 - 00:32:03:03
that whole notion
of bringing your purpose to work.
00:32:03:03 - 00:32:07:19
And as a leader in this book,
he actually this the leader
00:32:07:20 - 00:32:11:16
actually develops companies and divisions
based on people's
00:32:11:16 - 00:32:15:00
passions and desires
to contribute in a certain way.
00:32:15:00 - 00:32:18:16
So again, that's super inspirational.
00:32:18:16 - 00:32:21:04
And the third book
would be The Untethered Soul,
00:32:22:00 - 00:32:24:21
and that would be more
on the spiritual side.
00:32:25:11 - 00:32:28:11
So that's Michael Singer,
one of my favorite spiritual teachers.
00:32:28:11 - 00:32:31:23
And there's just a lot of wisdom
in the book.
00:32:32:20 - 00:32:36:06
It's a lot about self awareness
in terms of our,
00:32:36:15 - 00:32:42:14
our, our mind and how busy our mind is
and how often the thoughts that are
00:32:42:14 - 00:32:47:04
there are not serving us
so that's a really and a follow up
00:32:47:04 - 00:32:50:09
book to that is a surrender experiment,
if you like, the Untethered Soul.
00:32:50:09 - 00:32:55:01
His next book is a surrender experiment,
which is really fascinating read as well.
00:32:55:01 - 00:32:58:20
And he became just a quick note
on the surrender experiment.
00:32:58:20 - 00:33:04:11
He became the CEO of a company
that sold for, I think, over $3 billion
00:33:04:23 - 00:33:10:23
without any clear direction that that's
what he wanted to to go towards.
00:33:10:23 - 00:33:13:13
He was really surrendering to life
00:33:14:01 - 00:33:16:08
and and really tuning in with,
00:33:16:17 - 00:33:19:23
you know, what he was being called
to do in the moment.
00:33:19:23 - 00:33:23:12
So it's it's a really inspiring
book as well. Wow.
00:33:24:01 - 00:33:25:16
That's great. I've got a really good
00:33:26:19 - 00:33:29:19
selection here for for the coming weeks.
00:33:29:19 - 00:33:31:24
Well, thank you so much, Jacki, for that.
00:33:31:24 - 00:33:33:14
For your morning routine.
00:33:33:14 - 00:33:35:16
For my morning routine, absolutely.
00:33:36:03 - 00:33:40:07
And so where can our listener find you?
00:33:40:18 - 00:33:43:23
People want to get to know more
about you and your work.
00:33:43:23 - 00:33:45:14
Where should they go?
00:33:45:14 - 00:33:46:20
They can go to LinkedIn.
00:33:46:20 - 00:33:48:16
So Jackie Roberts on LinkedIn.
00:33:48:16 - 00:33:51:18
I'm also now a partner at Mines Matter.
00:33:51:18 - 00:33:55:08
So you can go to mines matter dot com and
00:33:56:12 - 00:34:00:11
or you can just connect with me
on LinkedIn as a safe way.
00:34:01:06 - 00:34:01:23
Excellent.
00:34:01:23 - 00:34:08:06
So thank you so much, Jackie, and
for parting with us so much wisdom today.
00:34:08:07 - 00:34:09:15
Oh, it's been a pleasure.
00:34:09:15 - 00:34:11:00
Thank you for having me.
00:34:11:00 - 00:34:12:09
Thank you.
00:34:13:11 - 00:34:15:20
This was the Max
Jarrell Leadership Podcast.
00:34:16:09 - 00:34:19:21
Thank you for joining us
to listen to future episodes.
00:34:20:04 - 00:34:24:00
You can subscribe on our podcast, Spotify,
00:34:24:10 - 00:34:28:11
YouTube, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.
00:34:28:18 - 00:34:33:11
Until next time, keep being the leader,
everybody trusts and respects.
